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motor overleden?? : Techniek W201

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Het is nu 19 apr 2024, 13:03

motor overleden??

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motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 27 jun 2016, 18:30

Hallo, mijn W201 benzine ratelt en verbruikt olie, zo'n halve liter per 1000 km. De olie komt er door de carterontluchting via het luchtfilter weer uit. Een compressietest wijst uit dat ik maar 8 bar druk heb op de 1e cilinder, de rest zit tussen 11 en 12. Ook wordt de oliedruk (metertje dashboard) steeds minder, onder 1 bar bij stationair en warme motor en iets boven 2 bij rijden op de snelweg, terwijl de meter normaal altijd tegen de 3 aan hangt. Motor heb ik al eens geflusht zonder resultaat. Vanavond bij het loshalen van de vuldop met draaiende motor spetterde de olie er gewoon uit. Ik ben bang dat ik toe ben aan een nieuwe motor (auto heeft eerst op gas gelopen) of is deze ene cilinder nog te repareren??
leeuw123
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor vVuuren » 27 jun 2016, 19:57

Een gebruikte motor kost m.i. minder dan een reparatie van een cilinder met compressieverlies en de ratel is dan nog onbekend qua oorzaak.
Dat kan van alles zijn maar is meestal vrij ernstig.
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor gerster » 27 jun 2016, 20:59

de ratel en je lage oliedruk ,wijzen naar uitgelopen lagers ,drijfstanglagers meestal +een hele slechte cylinder .
tijd voor een andere motor ,helaas .
gerster
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 27 jun 2016, 23:09

Bedankt voor jullie reacties. Het olieverbruik en het verlies van oliedruk gaan de laatste dagen erg snel, het geratel is er al een tijdje. Ik rij ongeveer 170 km per dag met de auto. Het oliefilter is laatst bij het flushen nog vervangen, dus ik kan me niet voorstellen dat die nu al verstopt zit. Ik heb geen olie in de koelvloeistof, ook geen koelvloeistofverbruik of rook uit de uitlaat. Toen ik vanavond de auto met nog warme motor nog even stationair liet lopen, kwamen er druppels (koel?)vloeistof uit de uitlaat. Ook heb ik het idee af en toe een koelvloeistoflucht te ruiken. Weet niet of dat er wat mee te maken heeft.
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 28 jun 2016, 08:53

Er zit een dikke laag drab op de kettingspanner, echter die is niet super vochtig. De olie is wel erg dun, drupt van de peilstok af. De peilstok is ook tot bovenaan nat van de olie. Dat verklaart volgens mij ook het gespetter met losse vuldop. Dat had ik eerst niet. Ik kan overigens nog steeds geen olie in de koelvloeistof ontdekken en ook het koelvloeistof niveau neemt niet af. Ook geen witte rook (helemaal geen rook, ook niet zwart of blauw). Door de dunne olie neemt de oliedruk wel af lijkt mij. Ik zal inderdaad niet meer met de auto rijden en een diagnose laten doen bij mijn garage. Is het bij een lekke koppakking ook niet "voordeliger" om de motor dan maar te vervangen?
Met de 1e cilinder bedoel ik overigens de cilinder die het dichtst tegen het schutbord aan zit. Is dat nu de 1e of de 4e?
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor Palma » 28 jun 2016, 11:22

Koppakking vervang je in 1 dag een andere motor weet je ook niet wat je krijgt of het moet een volledig 100% gereviseerde zijn.
Een kapotte koppakking komt regelmatig voor!
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 29 jun 2016, 07:08

Danst je oliedrukmeter?

Is dat wat van die peilstok af druppelt geen gecondenseerde koelvloeistof? Kvs mengt niet met olie. Je krijgt dan een vreemd drabje, vaak met witte slijmerige bende aan de peilstok of onder de vuldop tot gevolg.

Als je het kleppendeksel hebt gelicht, check dan ook de rek op de ketting door het merkteken op de nokkenas op positie te controleren.
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 05 jul 2016, 23:21

Nogmaals bedankt voor de goede reacties!
Ik heb geen niveau regeling op de achteras. De olie ruikt niet naar brandstof. Door een teller die het af en toe wel en af en toe niet doet, kan ik niks zeggen over het brandstofverbruik, maar ik heb niet het idee dat dat exorbitant hoog is. Ik gebruik altijd 10W40. Geen sludge of drab onder de vuldop of aan de peilstok.
Mogelijk is er nog wat flushmiddel achtergebleven. Op jullie aanraden heb ik heb inmiddels de olie en het filter vervangen. De oliedruk is nu weer normaal, d.w.z. 3 bar tijdens het rijden en 2 bar bij stationair/terugschakelen. Ook geen vreemde luchtjes meer, wel licht olieverbruik. Wat nog gebleven is, is het geratel. Ik heb de compressie nog niet opnieuw getest, maar ik neem aan nog steeds onvoldoende compressie op de 4de cilinder. Ik rij morgen en overmorgen nog een paar honderd km en dan gaat mijn garage vrijdag even kijken hoe het er voor staat. Ik had een nieuwe motor op het oog, maar ik wacht nog even af :) Wordt vervolgd!
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor FerryB » 06 jul 2016, 09:01

Dat geratel is volgens mij, de ketting. Blijf er dan niet mee doorrijden. Want als hij knapt, ben je veel verder van huis. :( En heb je een flinke schadepost.
Groet, Ferry.
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor Hans53126 » 19 aug 2016, 20:02

Hallo,
Koppakking vervangen in 1 dag is niet mogelijk, je bent geen inktvis met 10 armen.
Vorige week zelf me koppakking vervangen 190E 1.8 vanwege olie in koelwater.
pakking was vanwege leeftijd ( 24 jaar ) bijna vergaan en de brandringen waren al aan het lekken.
Maar goed eerst effe wat dingen testen en bekijken.
Nokkenas op tijd zetten daarna op de krukas kijken hoeveel graden hij over het 0 punt heen is,
dit is een graadmeter voor de rek van de ketting. tot 6 graden toegestaan als ie voor de rest geen herrie maakt. (ruis)
Cilinder 1 is aan de kant van de ketting 4 aan kant van schutbord.
Smering nokkenas gebeurd vanaf achterste lager nokkenas, en de rest door de holle nokkenas.
kettingspanner krijgt olie vanaf nokkenaslager voorkant cilinderkop door een gaatje van 1.2 mm erin geperst en een gaatje van 1.1 mm eruit het blok weer in.
Kettingspanner loshalen. Dop eraf soms komt huls ook meteen mee is niet erg.
1. dop met alu dichtring eraf halen
2. veer eruit daarna huls eruit als ie al niet mee kwam met dop.
3. plunjer naar voren toe eruit drukken, naar dop toe gaat niet !!!!
4. schoonmaken
5. Huls in motorblok draaien en vast zetten
6. plunjer met veerring erin drukken tot ie niet verder gaat.
7. veer in huls doen daarna dop met dichtring erop draaien, die niet te vast draaien anders gaat ie stuk.
Als je hydraulische klepstoters hebt krijgen ook die hun olie via elke lagerkap op nokkenas.
Een motor die tikkert kan meerdere problemen hebben, klepstoters die niet goed zijn, lagers, rammelende ketting en ga zo maar door,
daar moet eerst naar geluisterd worden.
Een Mercedes motor en zeker de M102 blokken zijn oersterk en gaan alleen kapot als ie wordt verkracht,
d.w.z. geen olie, geen of te kort koelwater, over ze toeren jagen, ketting breuk, geen olie wissel, dat soort dingen.
Oliedruk bij warme motor 800 rpm minimaal 0.3 Bar, bij 3000 rpm 3.0 bar,
en bovendien zolang de oliedruk meter druk aangeeft bestaat er niet direct gevaar voor de motor.
Om te controleren of er een zuiger o.i.d niet goed is zal de kop eraf moeten, dan kun je inschatten wat er loos is.
Eerst een compressietest gewoon en daarna met olie op de zuigers gespoten om verschil te zien. ( zuigerveren.)
( Mijn motor heeft 200.000 Km gelopen en de hoonstrepen staan nog duidelijk in de cilinderwand. )
Ik heb voor me koppakking speciaal gereedschap moeten kopen ( slagtrekker ) Gradenschijf i.v.m. nadraaien kopbouten. kop is naar een revisiebedrijf geweest en is nagekeken seals vervangen kwam als nieuw terug,
dit kostte mij 225 euro maar is het dubbel en dwars waard, kopbouten nieuw 25 euro, koppakkingset 68 euro, gradenschijf 20 euro, plus weet waar je aan begint tis niet zomaar effe. O ja plus nog wat klein materiaal, draadeindjes e.d. nokkenas zelf thuis gedemonteerd en er zelf weer opgezet.
Als je meer wilt weten zeg je het maar, kheb de ervaring hiermee.

Succes ! Gr Hans
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor HansMercedes » 20 aug 2016, 18:26

Ik heb een paar weken geleden ook een koppakking vervangen van een 1,8 op een zaterdag begon om 9 uur en was om 1600 uur klaar .maar heb er al verschillende gedaan hoor dus dat scheelt een hoop en je hoeft niets meer uit te vinden . speciaal gereedschap heb ik leggen . ook de kleppen schoongemaakt en gecontroleerd of deze nog goed in de zitting lagen . kettingspanner is inderdaad een trucje wat je zeker goed moet doen grt hans
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HansMercedes
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Type wagen: 190E 2.6
Bouwjaar: 1989
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor 190D 2.5 » 21 aug 2016, 06:52

Wat heeft leeuw nu met zijn blok gedaan?
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190D 2.5
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Type wagen: 190D 2.5
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LPG: Nee
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 17 dec 2016, 00:01

We zijn inmiddels een paar maanden verder. Ik rijd al weer een tijdje dus hoog tijd om even te melden hoe het afgelopen is. Het bleek dat door een kapotte zuigerveer er onderdruk was en een verbrande klep. Omdat de cilinderwand nog perfect was, hebben we besloten de motor te repareren, d.w.z. klop vlakken, nieuwe klep, klepzittingen en nieuwe zuigerveren. Dat was ongeveer even duur als een andere motor plaatsen. Echter na een tijdje weer dezelfde problemen: te weinig compressie op dezelfde 4e cilinder en olieverbruik/verlies. Bleek dat de zuigerveer wéér gebroken was. Waarschijnlijk niet de juiste geplaatst, dus dit is onder garantie hersteld met juiste en sterkere zuigerveren. Nu lijkt het goed te gaan, geen olie meer die er bij de vuldop uitgeperst wordt. Binnenkort zal ik nog even een compressietest doen om het zeker te weten.
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IMG-20160922-WA0001_verkleind.jpg
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IMG-20160923-WA0000_verkleind.jpg
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Laatst bijgewerkt door leeuw123 op 17 dec 2016, 00:25, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.
leeuw123
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 27
Geregistreerd: 26 okt 2015, 12:04
Type wagen: 190E 2.0
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 17 dec 2016, 00:17

Ik heb nu alleen nog olieverlies bij het plugje in de rode cirkel hieronder. Deze plug zit niet diep genoeg aangedraaid. Waar dient deze plug voor en hoe draai ik deze aan?
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IMG-20160922-WA0001_verkleind2.jpg
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leeuw123
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 27
Geregistreerd: 26 okt 2015, 12:04
Type wagen: 190E 2.0
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 19 dec 2016, 13:26

Apart verhaal: Zuigerveer niet sterk genoeg...

Dat plugje moet je er verder in tikken met een drijvertje. Dat is een scharnierpen waar aan de binnenzijde een kunststof geleider voor de distributieketting op zit. Bovenkant van dat pennetje moet gelijk zitten met buitenkant van je motorblok.

Paar centimeter verder naar rechts en beneden zit er nog 1, idem in het blok tikken.
JantjeV8
Gold Boarder
Gold Boarder
 
Berichten: 267
Geregistreerd: 24 feb 2011, 21:38
Type wagen: 190
Bouwjaar: 1985
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee
Andere wagens / opmerkingen:


Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor Bromgabber » 19 dec 2016, 18:45

Zitten er in de cilinder misschien slijtranden waar de zuigerveer tegen aan komt en breekt?
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Bromgabber
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
 
Berichten: 516
Geregistreerd: 02 jun 2015, 16:50
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 190E 1.8
Bouwjaar: 1991
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 22 dec 2016, 14:25

De cilinderwand was nog goed volgens de garage, anders hadden ze mij een andere motor geadviseerd zeiden ze.

Ik heb inmiddels weer een compressietest gedaan. Helaas weer 8 bar druk op de 4e cilinder.... De problemen zijn dus weer terug.
Dat er door de hoge carterdruk nu geen olie lekt bij de vuldop, komt waarschijnlijk door dat plugje wat niet goed vastzit, de olie komt er nu langs die weg uit...

Er van uitgaande dat de cilinderwand nog strak is, zou een nieuwe zuiger helpen? Misschien is de drijfstang krom?
Of toch maar uitzien naar een ander onderblok? De druk van cilinder 1 t/m 3 is wel goed (12 bar)
leeuw123
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 27
Geregistreerd: 26 okt 2015, 12:04
Type wagen: 190E 2.0
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor leeuw123 » 04 feb 2017, 00:48

Hier weer even een update. Een compressietest leverde weer dezelfde uitslagen op, dus weer te weinig compressie op de 4de cilinder... Ondanks dat de cilinderwand nog perfect glad leek te zijn, zal er toch wel iets niet goed zijn geweest. Mijn garage had nog als optie dat door de hitte de zuiger ovaal kon worden of zo. Anyway, er zit nu een nieuwe motor in, een 2 liter uit een W124 200E (motorcode 102.963 i.p.v. 102.962). Deze loopt als een zonnetje, de eerste kilometers zijn hoopvol (mooi stil, weinig trilling, geen geratel). Na verlost te zijn van een hoop euri's hoop ik dat ik nu voorlopig ook verlost ben van motorproblemen.
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20170203_173156_kl.jpg
nieuwe motor
20170203_173156_kl.jpg (748.28 KiB) 1115 keer bekeken
leeuw123
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Type wagen: 190E 2.0
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LPG: Nee


Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor FerryB » 04 feb 2017, 10:40

Dat is mooi, succes.
Groet, Ferry.
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FerryB
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Type wagen: 190
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Re: motor overleden??

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 06 feb 2017, 07:45

Ik heb een poos geleden ook een 1.8 onder handen gehad, ook hier op het forum verslag van gedaan. De aanvankelijke klacht was gelijk aan deze. Die kop lekte ook al voor de 2e keer in korte tijd.
Van de kop was nog wel wat te maken, maar het onderblok was het pasvlak te ver ingevreten. Ik kan dat op je foto's niet zien.
Was de gevlakte kop ook nog ter controle op een vlaktafel afgeperst?

Ik ben daar toch nieuwsgierig naar.
JantjeV8
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